Martin.Hanley
Subject: "Summer Camp"
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
summer camp... basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
different. At the end of the meeting, I discussed it with the boys and
they gave us some suggestions to look into.
What I'm curious about is a few things...
1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I
should be careful with?
2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
things to do):
a) Florida Keys - We thought about SeaBase.. but that limits it
to our older boys, we want to do something with all the boys
b) Yellowstone - Is there a "scout" area?
c) Texas - Doing a "roving" summer camp and hitting some of the
historical places... any suggestions there?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:07:34 -0500
From: Franco Piccione <FPicci1215@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
In a message dated 3/9/2004 3:02:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Hanley, Martin" <Martin.Hanley@STELLARRAD.COM> writes:
>Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
>discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
>summer camp... basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
>different. At the end of the meeting, I discussed it with the boys and
>they gave us some suggestions to look into.
Great idea! We do a in-state camp, out of state camp, and high adventure/International every year. Gives lots of opportunity to meet the needs/interests of the different age groups. The out of state, high adventure, and International trips have been really great for retention and keeping the interest of the scouts as they get older - there's always something "new" coming up.
Works very well.
>
>What I'm curious about is a few things...
>1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out?
See above.
>Anything that I
>should be careful with?
Depends. Need a little more information. What is the size of your Troop? Age distribution? Adult situation? How long a period are you considering? Drive or fly? Cost constraints?
>2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
>things to do):
> a) Florida Keys - We thought about SeaBase.. but that limits it
>to our older boys, we want to do something with all the boys
I, personally, wouldn't do the keys unless it was a Spring Break opportunity. Too hot, too many bugs.
Sea Base is good because the base is air-conditioned if you are there. If not on base you are off-shore (island or boat) and can get away from the critters by being on the boat where they can't get to you or on the beach where the breeze helps keep em off.
> b) Yellowstone - Is there a "scout" area?
Not sure. but you can check the usscouts.org site and go to "scout camps". Good resource.
> c) Texas - Doing a "roving" summer camp and hitting some of the
>historical places... any suggestions there?
There's a Scout camp in the North-Eastern part of Texas (East of Dallas, I believe) that is on a lake. Plenty to do and you get to the various camp locations primarily by canoeing on the lake. One of our local troops was very positive about the experience - haven't been there myself.
Hope this helps a little. Maybe others can add additional insight.
YIS,
Franco Piccione
Scoutmaster
Troop 225
Central Florida Council
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:45 -0600
From: Chris Counts <ccounts@GHG.NET>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
If you do one in Texas and try to move to different spots during the =
week,
just remember that things are a LONG way apart down here. I could see
picking San Antonio and working around there (El Rancho Cima is a great
group of camps from SHAC). Maybe a D-FW one and use Clements Scout
Reservation in Circle-10. Houston and Galveston can work with NASA and =
the
coast. Problem with all these is that you'll spend a LOT of time =
traveling
between spots.
Chris Counts
Scoutmaster, Troop 957
Bayshore District Health and Safety Committee
Sam Houston Area Council
...an a good 'ole Owl too...(SR-446)
-----Original Message-----
From: Scouts-L Youth Group List [mailto:Scouts-L@listserv.tcu.edu] On =
Behalf
Of Hanley, Martin
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 14:02
To: SCOUTS-L@listserv.tcu.edu
Subject: "Summer Camp"
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly =
discussed
"doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council summer =
camp...
basically so that we could take the boys somewhere different. At the =
end of
the meeting, I discussed it with the boys and they gave us some =
suggestions
to look into.=20
What I'm curious about is a few things...
1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I =
should
be careful with?
2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
things to do):
a) Florida Keys - We thought about SeaBase.. but that limits it =
to
our older boys, we want to do something with all the boys
b) Yellowstone - Is there a "scout" area?
c) Texas - Doing a "roving" summer camp and hitting some of the
historical places... any suggestions there?
Thanks!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:58:42 -0600
From: Bob Schuette <rdschuette@MCLEODUSA.NET>
Subject: Re: Do our own summer camp
>1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I
>should be careful with?
A few years back we did a Bad Lands/Black Hills/Devils Tower trip. Great
trip. It is a lot of work if you are going to make it more than just a long
campout. You will need to set out advancement goals for the trip and stick
to them, it is easy to get off track and end up just sight seeing.
The other thing you need to remember is the weather where you are going may
be much different that where you are. June in Iowa is the start of summer,
Western South Dakota was still mid spring.
>2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
>things to do):
Black Hills area council has a camp with a great family camp area and they
will work with you some on program. It is next to the Crazy Horse memorial
and close to Mt Rushmore.
Their web site is http://www.bsa-bhac.org/
Bob Schuette
SM Troop 89
Marion, IA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:19:16 -0800
From: tmc_scout <tmc_scout@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
----- Original Message -----
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
summer camp...
----- Original Message -----
I would have one concern. Not attending a BSA long term camp could make the
scouts ineligible for OA election. A scout who did not attend summer camp
last year would have to wait an extra year if a troop did not attend a BSA
long term camp this year.
** OA eligibility requirements
1. Be registered with the Boy Scouts of America
2. Hold the First Class Rank of the Boy Scouts of America, as a minimum.
3. After registration with a Troop or Team, have experienced 15 days and
nights of Boy Scout camping during the two-year period prior to the
election. The 15 days and nights must include one, but no more than one,
long-term camp consisting of six consecutive days and five nights of
resident camping, approved and under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of
America. The balance of camping must be overnight, weekend, or other
short-term camps.
4. Have unit leader approval prior to the election.
Some will say that the OA only takes boys from the troop and offers nothing
in return. That may be true in some areas but not all. From what I have
seen in my lodge, the OA is a very positive experience for the boys that is
carried back to the troop.
Just my thoughts.
Scout on!
Todd Cottengim
Redding, CA
CC - P44 / ASM - T37
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:19:12 -0600
From: Hardie Morgan <hwmorgan@SWBELL.NET>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:19:16 -0800, tmc_scout <tmc_scout@CHARTER.NET> wrote:
>"I would have one concern. Not attending a BSA long term camp could make the scouts ineligible for OA election. A scout who did not attend summer camp last year would have to wait an extra year if a troop did not attend a BSA long term camp this year."
This is not really correct. A long term camp does not have to be at a BSA council facility to qualify as a long term resident camping experience for purposes of OA. See http://main.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-08.htm
Which says in part: "If a troop runs their own long-term resident camp, "under the auspices and standards" of the BSA, it qualifies. The BSA does have very explicit standards for a resident Boy Scout camp, requiring much more than just a week long campout. Your local council camping people can provide more information on what the current standards are."
Hardie Morgan
Troop 1089 Committee Chair
Mustang District Training Committee
Sam Houston Area Council
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:26:36 -0800
From: tmc_scout <tmc_scout@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
----- Original Message -----
>>"I would have one concern. Not attending a BSA long term camp
>>could make the scouts ineligible for OA election.
> This is not really correct. A long term camp does not have to be at a
> BSA council facility to qualify as a long term resident camping experience
> for purposes of OA. See http://main.oa-bsa.org/qanda/qa-08.htm
----- Original Message -----
Thanks for the correction Hardie. I'll have to pass this to my lodge. "The
powers that be" profess to what I have posted in my original message.
Having the OA webpage link will help dispell another "Scouting Urban
Legend".
Scout on!
Todd Cottengim
Redding, CA
CC - P44 / ASM - T37
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:31:35 +0000
From: snodine@COMCAST.NET
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
I'm probably going to get a lot of flames for saying this but here goes.
I firmly believe that going to Summer Camp in your own Council every year does a dis-service to the boys in the Troop. The Scouts can see their own camp during camporees, weekend camping, etc. I have always looked at Summer Camp as a wonderful opportunity to see something new and different. To take the Troop places that the boys might not get to see. We have been to Florida (Sea Base for the older Scouts and a Scout Camp for the younger), South Dakota (great trip!), Tennessee (can it get a bit more HUMID!) with a stop at the National Scout Museum when it was in KY, and places in between. We have gone to our Council Summer Camp the last 2 years, but this was mostly due to necessity rather than desire. Many of our Leaders had new jobs and not enough vacation time built up. We will not be going to our Council Summer Camp this year - or for the foreseeable future.
Some other posts on this topic have mentioned the retention factor. What better way to keep the boys (and adults!) interested and excited then offering new and different opportunities every year. In addition to retention, different Summer Camps have also been a good recruiting tool. Having framed pictures of the Troop in front of Mt. Rushmore (where the boys performed the evening flag ceremony in front of an audience of over 500!), or on a sloop in the Florida Keys (dressed in snorkeling gear) gives visiting Webelos a good idea about what may be in their future with the Troop.
It is a lot of work to plan and execute these trips but worth every second.
Just my $.02 worth.
Steve Nodine
Committee Chair
Troop 34
Bolingbrook, IL
> Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
> discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
> summer camp... basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
> different. At the end of the meeting, I discussed it with the boys and
> they gave us some suggestions to look into.
>
> What I'm curious about is a few things...
> 1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I
> should be careful with?
> 2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
> things to do):
> a) Florida Keys - We thought about SeaBase.. but that limits it
> to our older boys, we want to do something with all the boys
> b) Yellowstone - Is there a "scout" area?
> c) Texas - Doing a "roving" summer camp and hitting some of the
> historical places... any suggestions there?
>
> Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:43:05 EST
From: GMarmet@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
I firmly believe that going to Summer Camp in your own Council every year
does a dis-service to the boys in the Troop. The Scouts can see their own camp
during camporees, weekend camping, etc. I have always looked at Summer Camp as a
wonderful opportunity to see something new and different.
*********
If, as the poster above describes, your Summer Camp is where you regularly
camp during the year I can see the poster's point. Our council is about 400
miles from our summer camp. No one in our council camps regularly at Camp
MaKaJaWan. We do have three in council camps that people do camp at fairly often,
but not our summer Camp. And frankly the only time our troop goes to one of
the in-council camps is for a planning or shake down campout, or perhaps the
first campout for new boys. We do have our Klondikes and district campouts at
these camps.
Happily, our summer camp, Camp MaKaJaWan remains a premier camp and boys
remain happy to go there for Summer Camp every year. The older boys will split
off and either do high adventure backpacking for a week in the Porcupine
Mountains or sea kayaking in Lake Superior, but all through Camp MaKaJaWan. There is
even a horse camp and a mountain bike program at the camp. Now we do have
boys who will dump Camp MaKaJaWan in favor of Philmont one year, or Sea Base, or
the National Jamboree (we send our own troop to Jambo), but a suprizing
number go to MaKaJaWan and Philmont.
We're just lucky I guess. You can read about MaKaJaWan at our website:
www.neic.org. Oh, and the number of men who do not consider a summer as a summer
without returning to MaKaJaWan is astounding (whether they are going with a
troop or not). Many men have a tradition of going to the camp for Vigil Weekend
for 40 or more years.
Yours in Scouting Service,
G. John Marmet, ASM
Troop 156, Glenview, Illinois
Northeast Illinois Council 129 Exec. Board
Council website: www.neic.org
Brownsea JLT Cook 97-2002
Owl, C.19.96; Brotherhood, Lodge 40
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:36:42 -0600
From: R Fisher <ghotier@TEXAS.NET>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
> Chris Counts wrote:
>
> If you do one in Texas and try to move to different spots
> during the week, just remember that things are a LONG way
> apart down here. I could see picking San Antonio and working
> around there (El Rancho Cima is a great group of camps from
> SHAC). Maybe a D-FW one and use Clements Scout Reservation
> in Circle-10. Houston and Galveston can work with NASA and
> the coast. Problem with all these is that you'll spend a LOT
> of time traveling between spots.
Also keep in mind that many of the BSA camps might not have space
available, especially on a limited basis (a couple of days) and that the
*other* facilities - basically State Parks - are often fully booked
months in advance; even the group areas in the more popular parks.
There is some neat history in Texas and some of it is not too far apart.
You don't say where you are from, but a historic tour of Civil War (War
of Northern Aggression) or Revolutionary War sites might make a good
trip. There are places where a lot of history is very close together.
As far as Yellowstone, I'm not sure if there is a group area(s), but
there is a Scout Camp just outside the park (near both Yellowstone and
Grand Teton) that might be an option.
YiS
Roy Fisher
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:15:28 -0800
From: Robert Wilbur <rpwilbur@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
Martin Hanley wrote:
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
summer camp... basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
different.
What I'm curious about is a few things...
1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I
should be careful with?
I have two different experiences with this idea, both good and bad. First the good ...
Troop 66 annually plans two summer camps. One is a trip to an "established" summer camp. We go to three different camps, rotating between our council camp (Camp Del Resler), a neighboring council camp close to our camp (Camp Wahinapey), and a third camp chosen a year or more in advance. Amongst these recent choices are Lost Valley, run in California (2000), and this year's trip to Camp Frank Rand in Santa Fe, NM. These camps are planned for so that our younger scouts can attend Summer Camp, in an environment safe for these youngsters to learn their Scout skills, earn merit badges and have fun.
The troop's other summer camp is a high-adventure trip, rotating between Philmont Scout Base, Boundary waters Scout base,and a third planned event. Recent trips have included a 50-mile hike in the High Sierra Nevadas, canoeing the Snake River, and this year's planned trip, a hike in the Colorado Rockies after exiting the Durango-Silverton Railroad halfway up the route. These are meant for the older scouts only, with no planned advancement being worked on.
These two trips, when combined annually, allow opportunity for advancement, planned fun, and a challenge for older boys.
Now for the bad ... use this story as a "what not to do" when planning a long-term trip.
When my oldest boy moved into Boy Scouts, the troop he chose had a pre-planned summer trip. The did the same thing every year, same as they had done for more than 20 years. The trip was a canoe trip down the Colorado River. This included how far to travel each day, what food would be eaten each day, what "fun" the boys could do while on the trip. There was no planning for advancement; indeed, no advancement was going on in this troop whan we arrived in the troop. As we planned events to move my son along in rank, for example,a five-mile map and compass hike, we got many bous who only needed that hike for second class. This was the only long-term summer trip the troop offered.
So, if you plan your own trip, and want to include the younger boys, plan in some time for rank advancement. And, as you've already done, get the boys involved in the planning. Let them decide what they want to do and where they want to go.
Good luck with the planning, and the trip.
Yours in Scouting,
Robert Wilbur
WEM-39-95
"I used to be an owl ... Hooty Hoo!!"
Cub Roundtable Commissioner, Sunshine District, Yucca Council ( www.yuccabsa.org )
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 66 ( www.troop66nm.org )
Webelos Parent, Pack 76
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:18:36 -0500
From: Roman Smith <roman.j.smith.13@ND.EDU>
Subject: Doing your own summer camp
Martin asked about a troop doing their own summer camp.
After passing the baton of SM off, and writing notes on
summer camp to help the new SM plan for the event, I came up
with these thoughts.
First, every troop does their own summer camp, most just do
them at a BSA staffed property where you can pick and choose
from the programs offered. Troops will be there with
different emphasis on using the camp for advancement, merit
badges, patrol and troop awards, and evening activities.
Every troop I have seen at summer camp uses the camp a
little differently. The camps offer programs, and the
troops pick and choose what they want to use for their
troop's summer camp program. Understanding that is an
important concept.
So what do you want to get out of summer camp? If you just
want a fun summer with new experiences, go to places other
than traditional BSA camps. The places you listed were
great ideas. If you want to help advance new scouts, the
advantage of a BSA venue is that the swimming instructors
and other dedicated personnel are there and trained. (Do
not underestimate that advantage of a "real camp staff" in
your advancement program.)
The challenge I presented our troop's new leadership was to
work with the troop and figure out what "traditions" were
worth keeping and what new focus they might find in the
summer program. For some troops, the best way to do that is
to throw out the bathwater, the baby, the tub, and anything
else you have, try something new, then come back and find
out what the other programs offered that you could have used
for the summer. Now, can you replace those needs with other
methods or do you need to take new scouts to a traditional
camp at least every other year or so?
Each troop has to go through this process on their own. If
that going out on your own is what you choose to do, go for
it!
----------------------------------
Roman J. Smith
Organizational Representative
St. Joseph Church, South Bend, IN
to Pack & Troop 505
roman.j.smith.13@nd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:44:10 EST
From: Neil Lupton <NeilLup@AOL.COM>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20Re:=20"Summer=20Camp"?=
In a message dated 3/9/04 9:37:48 PM, ghotier@TEXAS.NET writes:
> There are places where a lot of history is very close together.
>
For example, in my fair city, without ever getting into a car, you
could visit Old Ironsides, the Bunker Hill Monument, The Old North Church
(of Paul Revere Fame), the Boston Tea Party Ship, Fenway Park, several
pretty good colleges (including Harvard and MIT), the grainary burying ground
where several signers of the Declaration of Independence are buried and then in a
car go to Lexington and Concord. Plus you are within a one day drive of 5
states, the ocean and the mountains. Plus, if you plan early, you can
stay at a Scout camp within city limits.
It depends on what you and your Scouts want to do.
Best wishes,
Neil Lupton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:44:07 EST
From: Neil Lupton <NeilLup@AOL.COM>
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=A0=20=A0=20=A0=20FUNDRAISING?=
continuing - sent in error
to give credit for money raised or work done during that shift is
counterproductive. No one could predict and it is capricious.
On the other hand, if it is a personal selling activity where the
individual can control the money they raise by the number of hours they put in,
number and quality of contacts they make, etc., then an incentive based on
individual money raised is very appropriate and fruitful.
So in the case of the wrapping booth which randomly has busy and not busy
times, I would not give credit for money made during a shift. Rather,
except for difficult to fill shifts, I would make every shift equal and have
some kind of draft or slotted sign up system for times so that each
Scout/family has an equal opportunity to get times that they consider good or bad. For
example, I might put all the times on the board and allow the Scouts in
some kind of order to choose one slot until everybody has one choice, then
everybody gets a second single choice, etc. until all times are filled.
I would give people the opportunity to sign up for emergency replacement duty
at extra credit. Normally, there are people who don't come through on
their times and it is nice to have a roster of people who say "call me if you
need someone at the last minute."
With any type of incentive system, people will try to "game" the system to
get the greatest reward for the least work. That is human nature. The
trick is to design the incentive system so that as people try to game the system,
you get the behavior you wish.
And if, after the fact, one person had to work three times as hard for
their reward as someone else, that is the breaks of the game. Next time,
they may have better luck.
Best wishes,
Neil Lupton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:57:00 EST
From: Alpvalsys@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp" and the OA
In a message dated 3/9/2004 6:21:20 PM Hardie Morgan wrote
Quoting the OA website::
"If a troop runs their own long-term resident camp, "under the auspices and
standards" of the BSA, it qualifies.
That's the easy part, but what follows is what determines whether or not
it meets the standards of the BSA:
The BSA does have very explicit standards for a resident Boy Scout camp,
requiring much more than just a week long campout. Your local council camping
people can provide more information on what the current standards are."
In other words, a simple week-long expedition, whether or not it includes
opportunities and activities of a council/national-run camp, must also meet
the same standards that apply to your council camp or one of the national high
adventure bases. I know OA members who serve on regional camp inspection teams
and the standards are not that easy to meet, even for council-run camps.
Ralph V. Balfoort, Adviser
Ktemaque Chapter,
Haudenosaunee Lodge #19, OA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:22:53 -0500
From: Randy Possehl <rpossehl@USMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
> I'm probably going to get a lot of flames for saying this but here goes.
>
> I firmly believe that going to Summer Camp in your own Council every year
does a dis-service to the boys in the Troop. The Scouts can see their own
camp during camporees, weekend camping, etc. I have always looked at Summer
Camp as a wonderful opportunity to see something new and different. To take
the Troop places that the boys might not get to see. We have been to Florida
(Sea Base for the older Scouts and a Scout Camp for the younger), South
Dakota (great trip!), Tennessee (can it get a bit more HUMID!) with a stop
at the National Scout Museum when it was in KY, and places in between. We
have gone to our Council Summer Camp the last 2 years, but this was mostly
due to necessity rather than desire. Many of our Leaders had new jobs and
not enough vacation time built up. We will not be going to our Council
Summer Camp this year - or for the foreseeable future.
>
> Some other posts on this topic have mentioned the retention factor. What
better way to keep the boys (and adults!) interested and excited then
offering new and different opportunities every year. In addition to
retention, different Summer Camps have also been a good recruiting tool.
Having framed pictures of the Troop in front of Mt. Rushmore (where the boys
performed the evening flag ceremony in front of an audience of over 500!),
or on a sloop in the Florida Keys (dressed in snorkeling gear) gives
visiting Webelos a good idea about what may be in their future with the
Troop.
>
> It is a lot of work to plan and execute these trips but worth every
second.
>
> Just my $.02 worth.
>
> Steve Nodine
> Committee Chair
> Troop 34
> Bolingbrook, IL
No flame from here! Our Council camp is only one hour away so we use it a
lot during the year, although it does have three camps, so while we may do
summer camp in one, it is possible to be in another during the winter camp
season. While the decision is up to the Scouts, we encourage them to look
at only going to the Council camp every third year and we do this by
supplying them with literature, etc., for other close by summer camps. We
are very fortunate in that there are something like ten BSA summer camps
within a four hour bus ride and four or five of those are within a two hour
car ride.
I am not sure that any Council camp is going to offer much of a program for
the older youth however. Goshen Scout Reservation the National Capital Area
Council camp has a "high adventure" Lenhoksin trail which we have sent youth
to, and it is a good run up for the 14 and 15 year olds that are looking to
do Philmont the next summer, but the 16 and 17 year olds would look at you
like you were crazy (well actually they look at you like that all the time)
if you suggested that they do that trek.
Someone posted a comment about the fact that each troop does its own summer
camp each year, and I have to agree with that as well. At the same time,
the difference in summer camps at least in our area, is so small as to not
be worth mentioning. 95% of what they offer is the same and the differences
you can chalk up to this years staff and this years adults from the Troop.
One of the reasons we rotate therefore, isn't to offer different programs,
but rather to make the Scouts think they are going to get a different
program, which of course they are! With the exception of Haliburton, which
after all is in Canada, I have a hard time remembering much about any of the
six summer camps I have been to (okay I am getting old) while remembering
vividly the youth that I have camped with.
Grampa Fox
a.k.a. Randy Possehl
Advisor, Crew 874
SA, Troop 874
Baltimore Area Council
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:02:17 -0500
From: "Bruce E. Cobern" <bec@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
From: Randy Possehl <rpossehl@USMD.EDU>
Sent: Mar 10, 2004 8:22 AM
<Randy> We
are very fortunate in that there are something like ten BSA summer camps
within a four hour bus ride and four or five of those are within a two hour
car ride. </Randy>
Randy:
Only TEN? In fact, I think you are grossly underestimating the number of council operated summer camps within 200-250 miles of Baltimore.
While it was 12 years ago, we did a significant camp search. We used approximately 125 miles as our radius. At that time we discovered that there were over 90 council operated summer camps within 125-130 miles of NYC. That's right, over 90!. While I know that number is somewhat smaller today due to council mergers and consolidations, I would be surprised if it were less than 60 or so. I was shocked at how many camps there were operating out there.
Thus, my guess would be that using your wider radius you have quite a few more than 10 choices. Now whether many of these fit your limiting criteria (we established some criteria, narrowed down the field, and then actually visited a dozen camps before making our choice) is a different matter. But, the point, as both Randy and I are making, is that there is a real choice out there for your troops to select from.
--
Bruce E. Cobern
mailto:bec@pipeline.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:24:17 -0800
From: Steve Fee <stevefee@SBCGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Re: Possible Spam ESP::Re: "Summer Camp"
Not sure if this available in your area, but inthe Central Region there is a book available that gives details of all camps in the region.
There is also a publication Scout Camps USA Volume 2 http://www.scoutcampsusa.com
Or go to this web site http://www.bsacamps.org/
Both are great resources for finding all the different summer camps.
Yours in Scouting
Steve Fee
"Bruce E. Cobern" <bec@PIPELINE.COM> wrote:
In fact, I think you are grossly underestimating the number of council operated summer camps within 200-250 miles of Baltimore.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:30:52 -0800
From: "Carl E. Ballinger" <carl.ballinger@US.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: "Summer Camp"
Martin,
I have a few experiences with "non-traditional" summer camp. First, I was an
ASM with a troop in Transatlantic Council in Germany. We had attended the Camp Freedom
north of Frankfurt the year prior and decided to do something different. We went to
the Armed Forces Recreation Center in Garmisch and had them set us up a program of
rappeling, rock climbing, canoeing, and we did much of our own hiking. Fun trip.
The revolutionary thing that my my current troop does is called "The Tour." We do it
on even years, and go to a traditional summer camp in odd years. In 2002 we did the
Midwest Tour. Canoeing on the Mulberry River in Arkansas, Mammoth Cave in Kentucky, ]and touring St. Louis. (We are from Colorado Springs). People asked why we would come to their places when we are from Rocky Mountain country... that is simple. We camp in the mountains every month!! It was a good, but exhausting trip. I will be missing
Texas Tour 2004. (I am in the Army being reassigned) They are going to South Padre, Dallas, San Antonio etc. Prior to my time, they went north to Canada, and another year west to Grand Canyon, etc. We have a 1984 Int'l school bus, of which I am a licensed driver. Fun stuff. :)
YiS,
Carl Ballinger
ASM, Troop 99, CO Springs
*************************************************************************
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:02:08 -0600
From: "Hanley, Martin" <Martin.Hanley@STELLARRAD.COM>
Subject: "Summer Camp"
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders and I briefly
discussed "doing our own" summer camp next year rather than a council
summer camp... basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
different. At the end of the meeting, I discussed it with the boys and
they gave us some suggestions to look into.=20
What I'm curious about is a few things...
1) Has anyone tried this? If so, how did it work out? Anything that I
should be careful with?
2) Any thoughts on the following possible trips (i.e. places to stay or
things to do):
a) Florida Keys - We thought about SeaBase.. but that limits it
to our older boys, we want to do something with all the boys
b) Yellowstone - Is there a "scout" area?
c) Texas - Doing a "roving" summer camp and hitting some of the
historical places... any suggestions there?
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:36:02 -0800
From: "Carl E. Ballinger" <carl.ballinger@US.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: "Summer Camp" OA eligibilty
Regarding OA election eligibilty and non-traditional summer camp. Notice the requirement says "approved, long term camp." All that means is that someone needs to
talk to the Scout Executive prior to the trip. He has the authority to decide what
long term camping qualifies. We have no problem with our even-year tours and OA eligibility.
YiS,
Carl Ballinger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:34:38 -0800
From: cliff golden <cliffgolden@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "Summer Camp"
>>>>>
Last night at our Troop meeting.. the adult leaders
and I briefly discussed "doing our own" summer camp
next year rather than a council summer camp...
basically so that we could take the boys somewhere
different. At the end of the meeting, I discussed it
with the boys and they gave us some suggestions to
look into.
>>>>>
My troop does both. We have attended summer camp
every year for as long as I know, the past 40 or so
years, and long before that.
We also do our own high adventure programs each
summer, sometimes one trip, or as many as 5 high
adventure tours within a year. It's up to the boys,
what they plan and what they're willing to support
through attendance.
I believe traditional council summer camp has some
things that are great for younger Scouts, interaction
with staff and other troops, opportunity for
advancement, the stability of camping in one location.
After a couple summers of camp, they are ready for
something bigger and better.
Over the years our travels have taken us to 43 states
and 17 foreign nations. I believe part of citizenship
is getting them out to see this great country and be
exposed to foreign cultures beyond our borders.
We have had some amazing adventures and misadventures.
We didn't abandon summer camp though. We still attend
an excellent summer camp each year which gives the
younger boys a fantastic experience and charges them
with enthusiasm.
For high adventure tours, no adult votes on where we
go. It's totally up to the boys. I never know where
they're taking me until the weekend PLC retreat where
the plans are determined. I usually have an idea what
they're planning, but sometimes I get surprised.
Whatever you do, keep the boys the focus and use their
energy. It will take you farther than you can
imagine.
YIS,
Cliff Golden
Scoutmaster Troop 33
DeKalb, Illinois
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